Curse

Goonter · Jun 04, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

I see a lot of love going to some of the classes. Mostly monks, sometimes warriors, sometimes elementist, but hardly ever the ranger. Are rangers so bad?
Maybe,...but I think for the most part thier skill set is solid. Its really hard to tell sometimes though. Most of what makes the ranger hard to play is being so diverse that you can specalize yourself for certain situations and be fairly useless when those situations arent in play. Most of the other classes suffer from this also to varying degrees.

I went through a few ideas I posted and put them all together here to centralize them. My attempt with the ideas here is for the the players to get the information they need to plan success and not guess it. This can sometimes be a major flaw in the ranger. I believe with the proper information and the tools to use them the ranger class, with the same skills, could be signifcantly more helpful, much less of a tac on, and a valuble asset. If there's anything you think could be added, or taken out for some reason then please contribute.

1. To see an effect radius of nature rituals on the radar map. That way one can see if enemys, as well as anyone else are in the effect radius of nature rituals. This information can help play a role in how a team sets rituals up and uses them to thier advantage.

2. For traps laid to be visable to the trap layer and his team on the main display. This helps team members that are bait to know where to lure.

3. To make skills and attribution points interchangable during the count down in pvp. And during this time you can have a list of all the players and thier classes on entering battle, thereby helping you prepare yourself for a fairly random encounter. This helps the ranger + any other situational class figure out what skills can help improve thier game for the match.
(Consider how a healer monk never has to do this, as all of thier skills are relevent for any encounter while they are on a team.)

4. Add a enemy bar window that shows multible enemies health/energy (maybe)/ and actions. A person could cycle through and select the targets that he wants to keep an eye on.

- The team bar which shows all of your teammates health is useful for the team and extremely useful for a monk. Imagine what it would be like if there wasnt one. A monk would have to have to watch the battlefield and cycle through players to find where he needed to use skills and when. Imagine the skill you would need to be able to support a team this way. Thats whats its like playing a disrupter class and build.

5. The actions taking place in the skill monitor should look more clearly as to whether it is an action taking place or an action taken.
Timing your shot is crucial to controlling what you want to happen as a ranger. This can help eliminate some of the guess work.

The next few suggestions are skill related.

7. Have that charm animal skill taking up a slot do something for you. Like calling your animal swiftly to your postion and not attacking at all. Even though I have a pet, I dont always want him to run and aggro everything I target. As long as hes in this "stance" he's in rest mode and his health bar will eventually go back up. (You know, like everyone elses does went they arent fighting.) How does one counter it? Hit the pet once to prevent the regen, or continue to attack the pet and kill him.

As of now, the interupts - Distruption Shot and Concussion Shot are the easier ones to land. The speed of the shot only factors in the speed of the arrow, not the time it takes to string and release it. These shots still require some timing and/or guess work, usually a little of both. The other interpting shots require much more, but they do add significant damage also.

8. A spamable variation of distruption shot. But this shot would not lock your enemys skill. It would only stop it that once, and to little of no damage. Now there is a skill like this in the rangers arsenal already called, Disrupting Lunge. So it wouldnt be anymore unfair than this skill already is. It cost 5 and recharges in 5. The thing is, its an animal skill. Which is beautiful, because you dont even need to time it, because the animal is already at the target, which kind of makes it better than distruption shot. But for rangers that focus on bow attacks, something like this would be nice.

9. A spamable evasive skill. Because its spamable and its defencive its going to need its down side to be balanced. Its disadvantage would be, while your in this stance you can not use any skills and you lose all enchantments and prepations. You can only use basic attacks. The skill ends when its time runs out, if you are hit or if you use any skill. How does one counter it? Hit the ranger spaming this with attacks that cant be evaded. The warrior and ranger class have a few, the other classes have many.

Edit: Crap.. I meant to post this in Sardelac Sanitaruim....

Neo-LD · Jun 04, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Spammable evasion is stupid. Spammable disruption = savage shot/distract shot/punishing shot. Enemy HP bars would take up too much room -_-

Goonter · Jun 04, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

...thanks, I guess..for expressing your constructive thoughts.

But Id like to know where you see the flaw in these designs.

How is a spam evasion such as the one I suggested stupid?

Id understand it that it should be tweaked properly. My intention was it to only be reliable quickly not completely spamable. As it is now, after a ranger uses his evasive moves hes got to get healed, run or die trying. This is a complete defensive idea, and strips you of nearly all of your offence to use it. Plus, its still farely simple to get around for someone that thinks about it.

Disrupting Lunge all by itself = spamable disturption too.

Enemy HP bars would take up room. If done as ascetically as possible, then maybe not too much room. The option should of course be availble to customize your screen to turn it off as all of the other bars are, if whats happening in an enemy HP bar doesnt consern you. Id say only 3 or 4 enemys at a time is plenty, as Id imagine you could swap out and select different priorty enemies on the fly.

Zeru · Jun 04, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Rangers are not bad. Rangers are undervalued and most people are stupid and don't realize that they are good.

I don't think there needs to be any changes, but if you want more ideas on how rangers work, go down to shrapnel_magnets post and take a look. Good ranger discussion&builds there (might be in campfire).

Tellani Artini · Jun 04, 2005, 07:51 AM // 07:51

I don't think there's anything wrong with rangers balance-wise, except that pets are generally useless in most PvP situations. Or, if not useless, then not as good as a non-pet build. I'd still like to try a 12+ beast mastery build in tombs. Disrupting lunge, and some of the pet knockdowns, are just too good to leave on the shelf. It just has to be done right.

Rangers have plenty of evasion already, no question about that.

Some of your other points about convenience (visible traps, ritual ranges, etc.) would be welcome.

Rajamic · Jun 04, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

We don't really need an enemy health bar, but a semi-complete enemy status bar would be nice. Let us see what conditions and hexes we've put on each target. Useful for mesmers, ra/mes, nec, and mildly useful to war.

Goonter · Jun 04, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Rangers do have plenty of evasion true. Its the recharge rate on all of them thats sort of the let down.

So by spamable I simple meant one that would recharge faster. Maybe something along the likes of 15 cost for 8-14 secs at a 10 recharge rate.

To be honest, besides the ranger, Id like to see every class get a defencive boost for skills. Elementist and monks pretty much are covered. They can set themselves up to be completely defensive or offensive, maybe to compensate for thier low armor.
Again though, it would be a completely defensive option, with no offense when in use.
...but thats just me. I figured the skill suggestion ideas would be recieved with little approval. But,...I just wanted to make sure.

ComMan · Jun 04, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Spammable disruption shot:

Choking Gas and Incendary Arrows both interrupt every time you attack.

Spammable evasion:

Dodge's cooldown is fine.

I think that even if you did add the ability to see traps on the minimap, W/Mo's would still charge blindly (through lava) rather than pull.

Sting · Jun 04, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

The biggest issues with rangers are the preperations IMO. It takes like 5 sec and doesnt last very long (at least on my build). And most of the other preps or traps groups usually dont stay in the same area long enough to make use of them anyways. Most groups kill the Mob or chase after others in PvP B4 you can lay them down.

ComMan · Jun 05, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

The biggest issues with rangers are the preperations IMO. It takes like 5 sec and doesnt last very long (at least on my build). And most of the other preps or traps groups usually dont stay in the same area long enough to make use of them anyways. Most groups kill the Mob or chase after others in PvP B4 you can lay them down.

Most preperations last 24 seconds and take 2 seconds to cast. Kindle Arrows, Ignite Arrows, and Apply Poison all last longer than their cooldown.

The two interrupting ones are short lived (8 seconds for Incendary Arrows and a low variable for Choking Gas), but that's because whoever you're targetting pretty much can't cast in that time. Choking Gas even covers an area, keeping multiple casters at bay in a best-case situation.

How lame would it be if you could keep using Incendary Arrows (which will interrupt skills too, not just spells) for 20 seconds?

Tellani Artini · Jun 05, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

The biggest issues with rangers are the preperations IMO. It takes like 5 sec and doesnt last very long (at least on my build). And most of the other preps or traps groups usually dont stay in the same area long enough to make use of them anyways. Most groups kill the Mob or chase after others in PvP B4 you can lay them down.

Practiced stance is the answer to preparation time, and yes, it is worth spending an elite on it if you're using a short duration preparation (such as choking gas) imo.

Let's not consider only the random arena, but try to consider how things work on an organized team, i.e. the team arena. Here, you can brief teammates on how to get the most out of traps, or, preferrably, your teammates are bright enough to already know.

Goonter · Jun 05, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Ok, its agreed and clear, 8 and 9 arent suggesttions liked.

Skill suggestions arent usually helpful or useful anyhow. How about the interface ideas?

Aranador · Jun 05, 2005, 10:35 AM // 10:35

What happened to 6 ?

Pets can have their uses - but - having one skill memmed as charm animal, and having to mix pet skills and player skills, can break a build.

I had at one point made my ranger/warrior a runner stomper. You know the icky people that like to run laps around the arena? Except - when my pet runs faster than they do - it doesnt work

I am too unsubtle to snare them - I like them to realise that they are doomed even when they are supposedly unhindered.

Goonter · Jun 05, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I dont know what happen to 6? Im sure it was a great idea though.

I agree with you on the skill charm animal. Ive often heard how much of a hassle it is to control a pet. When Ive used one, the animal would run to attack as I attacked, but In knowing this I had to put him on the shelve because I could no longer pull effectivly without the animal aggroing everything. Plus, sometimes, it gets in the way of my teams warrior. It seemed clear to me that I would want to "activate" the skill charmed animal when I wanted my animal to attack. Id also want to activate it for my animal to return and rest as it could save his life.

Another thing I dont get about pets. Why, when your pet dies does all of your skills get disabled? 1. Healers cant heal them. 2. I have a hard time stopping him once he's started.
So if I do use a pet, I have to dedecate myself to watching him/ healing him. Him dieing alone comes to my disadvantage. What since does it make to add the disadvantage of losing all of my skills as a penality for the penality of him dieing?

Goonter · Jun 05, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Ok! I remember what 6 was. It was bunch of skill ideas I had for the ranger class that would finally make it usable. But after looking at them, I figured that most people would flame me for suggesting them. I think they're brilliant. But I wouldnt expect people to think outside the box and except them. I'll post them again anyhow so you can see.

-Headshot
Target foe recieves a headshot and dies.

Type:Attack Skill
Energy:10
Duration: -
Casttime: -
Recharge: 5

-Throatshot
If Throatshot hits while target foe is using a skill, the skill is interrupted and your target dies until he's dead.

Type: Attack Skill
Energy: 10
Duration: -
Casttime: -
Recharge: 10

-Devoring Feast
Your animal companion eats targeted foe.

Type: Shout
Energy: 10
Duration: 2
Casttime: -
Recharge: 1

-Work It Girl
All players within range stop thier current action and begin to /dance for 8-38 secs.

Type: Shout
Energy: 25
Duration: 8-38
Casttime: -
Recharge: 60

-Death From Above
Shoot 10 arrows in the air towards targets location. All arrows rain down in AoE headshots.

Type: Attack Skill
Energy: 15
Duration: -
Casttime: 1
Recharge: 20

-Holy Ghost
Create a level 1-10 Spirit. Creatures within its range become God and become impervious to all curses, hexes and attack damage. This spirit dies if you sin.

Type: Nature Ritual
Energy: 10
Duration: Forever (or until you sin against it)
Casttime: 5
Recharge: 30

See. Brilliant.

Neo-LD · Jun 05, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Ok! I remember what 6 was. It was bunch of skill ideas I had for the ranger class that would finally make it usable. But after looking at them, I figured that most people would flame me for suggesting them. I think they're brilliant. But I wouldnt expect people to think outside the box and except them. I'll post them again anyhow so you can see.

-Headshot
Target foe recieves a headshot and dies.

Type:Attack Skill
Energy:10
Duration: -
Casttime: -
Recharge: 5

-Throatshot
If Throatshot hits while target foe is using a skill, the skill is interrupted and your target dies until he's dead.

Type: Attack Skill
Energy: 10
Duration: -
Casttime: -
Recharge: 10

-Devoring Feast
Your animal companion eats targeted foe.

Type: Shout
Energy: 10
Duration: 2
Casttime: -
Recharge: 1

-Work It Girl
All players within range stop thier current action and begin to /dance for 8-38 secs.

Type: Shout
Energy: 25
Duration: 8-38
Casttime: -
Recharge: 60

-Death From Above
Shoot 10 arrows in the air towards targets location. All arrows rain down in AoE headshots.

Type: Attack Skill
Energy: 15
Duration: -
Casttime: 1
Recharge: 20

-Holy Ghost
Create a level 1-10 Spirit. Creatures within its range become God and become impervious to all curses, hexes and attack damage. This spirit dies if you sin.

Type: Nature Ritual
Energy: 10
Duration: Forever (or until you sin against it)
Casttime: 5
Recharge: 30

See. Brilliant.

lolol. btw sspammable evasion is stupid becasue GW doesnt need a char that can remain nearly impervious indefinatly.

Goonter · Jun 06, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

I had also thought that for every point in expertise, you should get an extra skill slot.
...just to make it fair.

Tellani Artini · Jun 06, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

I had also thought that for every point in expertise, you should get an extra skill slot.
...just to make it fair.

I think each point in expertise should give you a constant 10% chance to evade all attacks and magical projectiles instead.

Zeru · Jun 06, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Rangers *are fine*. They do not need these enhancements.

Goonter · Jun 06, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Suggestions 1 through 5 arent just ranger suggestions. They help everyone. 7 is a good idea, that or something like it is a suggestion made by many. No one liked 8 or 9. And 6 is a joke.